Worth pointing out that Hannibal from the series Hannibal was a cognitive ENFJ commonly mistyped as INTJ. Whilst I can see where you're coming from are neutrality I will add that in the context of typology & neurology assigning moral value to said acts of sadism etc would be indicative of a lack of an Fi-Si dip. Let's take an INTP for example, if they haven't developed or don't have the neurology to develop their Fi-Si dip from their dominant Ti this leads to irrational, unempathetic decision making. I'd correlate sadism with a lack of rationality here much to the surprise of many who'd equate sadism with cold hard logic when the opposite is in fact the case in many ways. I'd say that whilst empathy can be denoted as neutral, for the cognitively healthy & developed this isn't the case; empathy requires a symbiotic relationship between rational & limbic processes otherwise one is stuck in a degenerate state - we often see this with kids who have been severely abused who are statistically more likely to become abusers themselves. I feel like there's an implicit sense of 'transcendence' in this post by posting that it's a neutral term when in fact heightened aspects of empathy accompanying by severe deficits in some aspects is a defective way of being. Some people can indeed move off the narcissism spectrum & so forth but it takes a lot of psychoanalytic work. These kinds of people whilst they may initially do well in terms of work hierarchies etc tend to end up being the bane of the company/the reason the economy crashes etc as the concurrent inability to self regulate & rationalise simply isn't there. We need to look at this from both a cerebral & limbic standpoint & how these intersect, plus the varying facets of what constitutes empathy...no notion of cognitive & affective empathy in the context of psychopathy is indeed being challenged in research. I also think you're assuming that the will to dominant etc & deriving pleasure from this is normative...it's not...great leaders seek to lead not subjugate. I also wouldn't state that feeling empathy is a necessary component for subversive acts but can act from a deficit in such; look at the likes of Vladimir point: completely irrational & ill-founded empathy on the notion that the Ukraine wants to be sublimated back into the motherland; he's clearly delusional & has no empathy for the thousands of people who have been displaced & killed.
Being able to empathise with everyone, even people with whom I vehemently disagree, can be quite trying. My OH half calls it 'gandhi-ising', which irritates me further. I've tried explaining that when I empathise it's not the same as agreeing or excusing, but he just doesn't get it. He's ISFJ and I'm INFJ. Or son is ENFP so my OH is constantly on edge over his seemingly lackadaisical ways, whereas I'm more understanding and accepting.
Sometimes I envy people who seem to see things in black and white. It must be so much easier for them.
Ps you're looking at the 'problem' from the purview of even within the confides of Ti-Ni, too wide of a scope with a lack of specificity, I respectfully think, and without the Ne perspective shifting nuance this topic requires. Empathy is not simply a case of applying a value judgement to it indeed it's not solely a logical sequential exercise or optional heuristic we take. Without reiterating too much of what I've already wrote, you will find for those (and yes I'm an academic researcher in this field & mental health professional) people who derive pleasure from peoples sufferings that they lack affective empathy and the vast majority, contingent upon the degree of suffering/context of course, do have severe personality disorders particularly of the category B variety (combined Histrionic, EUPD & narcissistic PD for instance but mainly NPD ++), at the core they are deficient human beings...narcissism is characterised by an unstable disintegrated ego at its core. I think you're conflating the compensatory pseudo conscious identity that one develops with proficiency and 'transcending' human weaknesses to an extent when the inverse is in fact true; it's a defence mechanism against disintegration. I assume you're referring to yourself as you posited 'those among us' but I think you're treating values as this abstract concept that one can choose to follow or not. Yes there is an element of choice but much is going to be contingent upon cognitive fluidity (not the narcissists realm of expertise) and integration of one's functional pairings. The narcissist isn't superior he is a degenerate...However it's not quite that simple, even the narcissist, even more so than most id posit by my clientele & research, require affective empathy validation in bucket loads such is the fragility of their ego...through a seemingly paradoxical hybrid of need for overt affirmation from others & a lack of affective empathy for those they victimise, they loathe it & need it. Contrary to your perspective many scientists would argue that many narcissists do not have a choice due to their deficiencies...where they do have a choice not to do it is in part due their ability to regulate their emotions (immediate reward stimulus) & rationalise upon their actions, 'will this action enable my self awareness or am I simply responding & acquiescing to a transitory stimulus?'....those who choose, or are unable (exists on a spectrum) to not satiate their desires are lacking in self awareness...unlike the 'rest of us'. Again, you sound like you're putting such people on a higher existential plain - this isn't the case...if you wanna be some dumb ass that ends up in prison, has no real fulfilling relationships, can't work with other people etc then how the hell are you winning? Neutral empathy is not, it's quite simply a deficiency that exists on a spectrum. I don't think you're right about cognitive empathy either - the pleasure you again is simply a sadistic pleasure seeking response (probably born out of a lack of power from childhood & having similar acts done to you thus reasserting your own power for fear of disintegration)...& the narcissist can only really derive pleasure from that which they can relate to, which isn't a lot. They can't feel pleasure for another's success, they're petty & vindictive, they don't know what it is to love another human beings...oh dear it's a sad state of affairs. Can they really mentalise what another person is feeling? From my experience I think this too is impaired; the acts of cruelty heighten just to satiate their minimal cup...What a sad repressed way to live - dysregulated within the parameters of a tiny cup precariously balanced should the true ego surface & erupt. Everything is being done to protect that lonely inner fragile child, that's the real point. They are entirely governed by their own suppressed emotions - other peoples have nothing to do with it.
Worth pointing out that Hannibal from the series Hannibal was a cognitive ENFJ commonly mistyped as INTJ. Whilst I can see where you're coming from are neutrality I will add that in the context of typology & neurology assigning moral value to said acts of sadism etc would be indicative of a lack of an Fi-Si dip. Let's take an INTP for example, if they haven't developed or don't have the neurology to develop their Fi-Si dip from their dominant Ti this leads to irrational, unempathetic decision making. I'd correlate sadism with a lack of rationality here much to the surprise of many who'd equate sadism with cold hard logic when the opposite is in fact the case in many ways. I'd say that whilst empathy can be denoted as neutral, for the cognitively healthy & developed this isn't the case; empathy requires a symbiotic relationship between rational & limbic processes otherwise one is stuck in a degenerate state - we often see this with kids who have been severely abused who are statistically more likely to become abusers themselves. I feel like there's an implicit sense of 'transcendence' in this post by posting that it's a neutral term when in fact heightened aspects of empathy accompanying by severe deficits in some aspects is a defective way of being. Some people can indeed move off the narcissism spectrum & so forth but it takes a lot of psychoanalytic work. These kinds of people whilst they may initially do well in terms of work hierarchies etc tend to end up being the bane of the company/the reason the economy crashes etc as the concurrent inability to self regulate & rationalise simply isn't there. We need to look at this from both a cerebral & limbic standpoint & how these intersect, plus the varying facets of what constitutes empathy...no notion of cognitive & affective empathy in the context of psychopathy is indeed being challenged in research. I also think you're assuming that the will to dominant etc & deriving pleasure from this is normative...it's not...great leaders seek to lead not subjugate. I also wouldn't state that feeling empathy is a necessary component for subversive acts but can act from a deficit in such; look at the likes of Vladimir point: completely irrational & ill-founded empathy on the notion that the Ukraine wants to be sublimated back into the motherland; he's clearly delusional & has no empathy for the thousands of people who have been displaced & killed.
Being able to empathise with everyone, even people with whom I vehemently disagree, can be quite trying. My OH half calls it 'gandhi-ising', which irritates me further. I've tried explaining that when I empathise it's not the same as agreeing or excusing, but he just doesn't get it. He's ISFJ and I'm INFJ. Or son is ENFP so my OH is constantly on edge over his seemingly lackadaisical ways, whereas I'm more understanding and accepting.
Sometimes I envy people who seem to see things in black and white. It must be so much easier for them.
Ps you're looking at the 'problem' from the purview of even within the confides of Ti-Ni, too wide of a scope with a lack of specificity, I respectfully think, and without the Ne perspective shifting nuance this topic requires. Empathy is not simply a case of applying a value judgement to it indeed it's not solely a logical sequential exercise or optional heuristic we take. Without reiterating too much of what I've already wrote, you will find for those (and yes I'm an academic researcher in this field & mental health professional) people who derive pleasure from peoples sufferings that they lack affective empathy and the vast majority, contingent upon the degree of suffering/context of course, do have severe personality disorders particularly of the category B variety (combined Histrionic, EUPD & narcissistic PD for instance but mainly NPD ++), at the core they are deficient human beings...narcissism is characterised by an unstable disintegrated ego at its core. I think you're conflating the compensatory pseudo conscious identity that one develops with proficiency and 'transcending' human weaknesses to an extent when the inverse is in fact true; it's a defence mechanism against disintegration. I assume you're referring to yourself as you posited 'those among us' but I think you're treating values as this abstract concept that one can choose to follow or not. Yes there is an element of choice but much is going to be contingent upon cognitive fluidity (not the narcissists realm of expertise) and integration of one's functional pairings. The narcissist isn't superior he is a degenerate...However it's not quite that simple, even the narcissist, even more so than most id posit by my clientele & research, require affective empathy validation in bucket loads such is the fragility of their ego...through a seemingly paradoxical hybrid of need for overt affirmation from others & a lack of affective empathy for those they victimise, they loathe it & need it. Contrary to your perspective many scientists would argue that many narcissists do not have a choice due to their deficiencies...where they do have a choice not to do it is in part due their ability to regulate their emotions (immediate reward stimulus) & rationalise upon their actions, 'will this action enable my self awareness or am I simply responding & acquiescing to a transitory stimulus?'....those who choose, or are unable (exists on a spectrum) to not satiate their desires are lacking in self awareness...unlike the 'rest of us'. Again, you sound like you're putting such people on a higher existential plain - this isn't the case...if you wanna be some dumb ass that ends up in prison, has no real fulfilling relationships, can't work with other people etc then how the hell are you winning? Neutral empathy is not, it's quite simply a deficiency that exists on a spectrum. I don't think you're right about cognitive empathy either - the pleasure you again is simply a sadistic pleasure seeking response (probably born out of a lack of power from childhood & having similar acts done to you thus reasserting your own power for fear of disintegration)...& the narcissist can only really derive pleasure from that which they can relate to, which isn't a lot. They can't feel pleasure for another's success, they're petty & vindictive, they don't know what it is to love another human beings...oh dear it's a sad state of affairs. Can they really mentalise what another person is feeling? From my experience I think this too is impaired; the acts of cruelty heighten just to satiate their minimal cup...What a sad repressed way to live - dysregulated within the parameters of a tiny cup precariously balanced should the true ego surface & erupt. Everything is being done to protect that lonely inner fragile child, that's the real point. They are entirely governed by their own suppressed emotions - other peoples have nothing to do with it.